jwn is thought provoking!..
this board is a very interesting place to be.....if you are a jw.....were a jw.....are thinking of becoming a jw.....like jw`s.....hate jw`s.....or..like pretending to be a jw..lol!!.
"pretending to be a jw",will be the subject for this thread... we have aready met people on this board,who have no problem pretending to be jehovah`s witness`s and support the wbt$......but..have no interest in following the wbt$..or.. doing any of the hard work it takes to be a jehovah`s witness... i have met people like this,in real life... have you ever met people in "real life" that:.
My wife met somebody at the door once who said she was a JW. We gathered that she must have studied with a JW years ago and simply made the choice to call herself one because she related to it more than anything else.
In this case, the person simply didn't understand the high levels of commitment necessary for being considered a JW, within the JW organization itself. Not a shocking revelation.
dear readers of revelation,.
i have been reminded that a simple question is more effective than an elaborate presentation.
i have become very careful about what i say and how much i say to most people.
FWIW,
That book is filled with terrible art. I don't get anything more out of it than that.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
Perhaps the WT only owns the right to bury people in a certain number of cemetery lots? Like they bought a bunch of cemetery lots that were part of this cemetery?
Interesting throught, although it was mentioned that the Church supposidly has no record of this (something I personally doubt).
As I mentioned in an eairler post, there are only a few lot numbers for that particular block and they are far from being in sequential order. It seems that many numbers are missing. My guess is that many smaller lots were merged over the years.
But if you are correct, the church has to have some documentation. I don't buy the idea that they have no records on the lot.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
One interesting thing that came to my mind.
It's not just Rutherford who is claimed to have been buried on Staten Island, but other people as well. Yet none of them have a grave on the site. Why were markers not purchased for these men? Were they trying to hide something, or were they just cheap?
It's funny how this story can be taken both ways with 'evidence' giving weight to each side. We could believe that they put no graves to hide the fact that Rutherford wasn't there. Or, they could not have avoided placing graves so as not to draw attention to the fact that it was a methodist church (the counter argument being, why didn't they just place some stones even if he really was in california?) There is also the obvious, 'they were cheap' argument as well.
For what it's worth, I don't think I buy into the story of the guy at Beth Sarim saying that Rutherford was in the garage. Just to much for me. But the idea of him being stuck in the back yard somewhere is interesting.
Another very important thing. The supplement to the book "the way to paradise" says that in a call to the church in 2002 the Watchtower the keeper of the grounds said that the Watchtower still owned the plot. But public records clearly show that they no longer to own it. There is only one large plot, and the Watchtower shows no ownership anywhere on the block.
Either the groundskeeper was wrong, or the Watchtower sold the proeprty in the last few years. My intuition tells me that the groundskeeper was wrong. I bet the property was sold (or given away) a long time ago. This is something that a little digging through records should reveal.
If Staten Island really was the place where Rutherford was buried, why would the Watchtower ever give away the land? Something's not right about this...
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
After posting my comments I kind of thought about that Consolation article a bit. The amount of effort that went into arguing for a burial at Beth Sarim does show an odd amount of persistance that gives backing to the story.
Who exactly are the eyewitnesses to the late night burial?
I've seen pictures of the gravestones at the famous "launching pad" where many WTS notables are buried, but didn't see a gravestone for Da Judge.
Yes, but that's at Walkill I believe. The cemetary where Rutherford was claimed to have been buried by the society is on Woodrow Street in Staten Island (verified by the info posted througout this thread). So either he is actually at Woodrow or he was secretly placed at Beth Sarim.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
Just wanted to add that I find the stoires about JFR being buried in Beth Sarim to be highly suspect. They rely heavily upon anecdotal tales that, while creating an interesting plot twist, are nothing more than speculation.
Taking into consieration the type of guy Nathan Knorr was, breaking the law and burying JFR on Beth Sarim doesn't particuallry seem his style. But sticking him in an unmarked plot of land owned by the society does. I see no reason why we should quesiton the offical statments of the society in this respect. But that's just me.
The fact that it is a methodist church means little imo. Currently the area is surrounded by suburban homes. This may have been different in 1940. We really don't know. The book mentions that the radio station was very close to the gravesite, which provides a little perspective.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
Comparing the information in the book the the google maps images I have a pretty good idea as to where the grave lot is. Here is a little thing I threw togeather in photoshop:
as you can see that property in the front is around 100 feet deep and 50 feet wide. This gives us some proportions to work with. The untouched area in the back of the church (market with a green square) fits the dimentions of the 100x100 lot people have talked about.
Now all we need are some property records to confirm.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
Amazing that the grave of a man who had such a public life is lost to history, at least for now.
I acutally think the biggest find may be at the church. I would bet that they have old records filed away that show who is buried where.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
I'd think that some records must be on file somewhere as to who is buried where.
I found a few places online that say they have records of this sort, but you have to go to the facility to search. They are not available with the click of a mouse
If somebody could go there that would be awesome. I think that asking the Church for information about the history of the plot wouldn't be a bad idea either. I may just have to give them a call.
the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!
) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.
it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.
Seriously, though, if there was a cemetery there originally, wouldn't it still have to be there? Wouldn't that be regulated by some sort of law?
I'm going to guess that the bodies are still there, although my theory about property #14 adds a bit of drama
My guess is that they simply turned the property over to the church. But anything is possible. We will only find out when the records are found.
